The John Titor story

[FoundingFathers]

Yeah, yeah, I know - this isn't too cheery either - but makes great reading!
Please take it with a grain of salt, as I did...


John Titor's Story



Was he a brilliant fraud, or an ordinary soldier from 2036?


Someone using the assumed name of John Titor and claiming to be a soldier on a mission from 2036 presented a considerable amount of information on the Web beginning around November 2000 about his mission and time travel machine, his perspective on our society, how our society is going wrong, and how society as we know it will end in a very short but massive intercontinental nuclear war in 2015. He's gone now, back to 2036 he said he was going in his last posting on March 24, 2001, and the threads he left across the Web are slowly evaporating.
Sure, sure, a time traveler. Why should anyone believe such a cockamamie story? The answer is you shouldn't, at least not yet. Keep a healthy skepticism. But keep an open mind too because there is a strong thread of internal consistency throughout Mr. Titor's story, there is supporting evidence in the form of some fairly detailed photographic documentation and good physical theory about his time travel machine, and most important of all Mr. Titor made a very specific prediction about the near future that should soon prove him to be either a fraud or not: America will soon be engaged in civil war with itself; a civil war that we'll see the beginnings of during 2004 and 2005, escalating until it is indisputable by 2008 ("a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over") and "will consume everyone in the US by 2012" (no vague Nostradamus ramblings or Bible-baloney in this stark prediction). Such a scenario seems sufficiently preposterous at the time of this writing (begun May 2003) that if it does come true, a reasonable person ought to consider that Mr. Titor was probably a genuine time traveler, and that the rest of his story is probably true too.

One purpose of this site is therefore to document Mr. Titor's prediction about civil war in America well in advance (beginning in May 2003) so that after 2004 or 2005 if there actually have been a series of armed conflicts between the U.S. government and its citizens, escalating as Mr. Titor described ("a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse"), there won't be any question for new visitors or even previous visitors with less than perfect memories that this specific prediction was not fabricated after the fact. Formally copyrighted evidence has been created and presented here before 2004 as proof of that prediction. In the light of that evidence nobody can legitimately claim it was all made up afterward. We don't know yet if Mr. Titor was a fraud or telling the truth, but we ought to be pretty sure one way or the other in 2005 and have absolute certainty by 2008 at the very latest. If it turns out he was telling the truth, we'll know to get ready for 2015. That would give us a few more years of regular meals and clean sheets and showers and medical care and clean air and water to enjoy, before we blast all those things away. Nuclear war means " megadeath for the kiddies " as Dr. M. Goldman has so eloquently put it.

Another purpose of this website is to capture and organize the information about John Titor still available, in one place for ease of reference. If he's a fraud this will have been a waste of time, but if he proves to be real then the knowledge he left may save many lives if people heed his warnings and plan appropriately (get well away from cities and from other nuclear targets by 2015, and be prepared). Escaping initial blast and fire effects would give you a fighting chance to live through the subsequent radioactive fallout, famines, and disease epidemics at least, and there is just the barest outside chance that by having a foreknowledge of events, we could change our own future and avoid a catastrophic nuclear end to today's civilization. By 2036 he says, society and a new government have begun to recover in America, but the destruction and residual radiation are still having major detrimental effects. We are regarded as the generation "that had it all, but threw it away". Although Mr. Titor said we had the power to change our future because the multi-worlds theory is true, he also said we probably won't.

In a world so full of scammers, the odds are John Titor was a fraud playing mind games, and there are certainly plenty of them on the Internet. In this case I'm holding on to cautious skepticism while retaining an open mind to a story that seems so internally consistent and offers several indicators of genuineness, including a specific prediction as proof. He pushed no agenda, had nothing to sell, and apparently wasn't concerned if people believed what he said because he didn't expect to be believed in the first place. In the post below he said his motive was "For most of my adult life, I have read about, wondered and debated about this time. I value this opportunity to share experiences".


posted at http://communities.anomalies.net/cgi...c&f=9&t=000024
02-15-2001 11:45 AM My Posts Edit IP: Logged
John Titor
Member

Registered: Jan 2001
Posts: 78
My Motive:

I’ve been in your time a bit longer than I had expected. My next opportunity to go home comes in the spring. For most of my adult life, I have read about, wondered and debated about this time. I value this opportunity to share experiences. If you absolutely believed I was a time traveler, with no skepticism whatsoever, then we would be unable to communicate. The focus of our attention would then always be on the machine. The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won’t gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions. Please do not assume I am purposely avoiding questions. I am human, I get tired, and I forget things. Please, just remind me if I missed a question and I will get to it.

I think that if I was a time traveler from a postnuclear 2036, I too would have a certain interest in learning about the culture that brought on the worst mass destruction and lingering misery in my history. Mr. Titor was clearly interested in people's reactions to what he had to say, and he did say some very interesting things about the direction our country is going, in particular its transformation into a police state and how that sets the stage for civil war. If he was a fraud he went to a fair amount of trouble to build a model of his time machine. Some of the pages from the purported technical manual for the unit are very technical and would be very time consuming to construct. Most difficult for a scammer to create (one would think) would be a plausible theory and fairly detailed schematics describing how his time machne works. [ Apparently Mr. Titor's government-issue "Time Distortion Gravity Displacement Unit" uses two spinning and charged singularities (mini black holes) massing around 200 pounds each to distort gravity around them; by distorting gravity the singularities also distort time, and time can then be moved through. It's a plausible theory, it's consistent with current black hole theory, and the timing of development he describes is reasonably consistent with the expected development of mini black holes when the Large Hadron Collider at CERN comes online in 2007. If John Titor is a fraud, he is one very smart fraud. ]
Still a healthy skepticism is in order until the proof is offered in 2004 or 2005 (or if you're really a hardcore skeptic, wait until 2008) as to whether or not civil war in America has become a reality, a prediction that seemed totally preposterous in 2000 when John first began discussing it, and only slightly less preposperous by 2003. Civil war in America? Get real! But things do seem to be becoming more and more uneasy in this country, so who knows? Either way it goes, whether John Titor was genuine or a fraud, we'll know the truth soon enough. If it turns out he was genuine you can use that knowledge to save your ass and maybe, just maybe, society's collective ass too.

[FoundingFathers]

Some of his "posts"....interesting....



JOHN'S PREDICTIONS

(Although John said he would not make predictions or tell us what happens in the future, he did make enough comments that leave a trail of what might be called predictions. The following section contains all of the comments John made about the future, the technology of time travel and cryptic comments that seemed out of context.

The web sites attached are based on my own searches. In most cases, I looked up the term John mentions and then searched under the results with the word "time travel" or any other phrase he mentioned. I hope to add the rest of his posts by month in the coming weeks.)

November 02, 2000 01:16

(1) I was just about to give up hope on anyone knowing who Tipler or Kerr was on this worldline.



<http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/english/...00/timetravel/ bacwtt.html>

(2) The basics for time travel start at CERN in about a year and end in 2034 with the first "time machine" built by GE.





November 02, 2000 01:00

(3) I saw the posting requesting the basic systems for a gravity distortion system that will allow time travel. Here they are:

1. Magnetic housing units for dual microsignularities.
2. Electron injection manifold to alter mass and gravity of microsingularities.
3. Cooling and x-ray venting system
4. Gravity sensors (VGL system)




5. Main clocks (4 cesium units)




6. Main computer units (3)

November 04, 2000

(4) A world war in 2015 killed nearly three billion people.

(5) I am aware that research is being done on faster units with more accurate clocks. I imagine that they will be able to go back farther with a higher degree of divergence confidence.

November 06, 2000 09:04

Unfortunately, there were not very many suitable vehicles around in 2036 and I sold the car when I arrived in 2000.

(This isn't a prediction but it occurred to me that someone is driving around in a car that is not from this time.)

November 06, 2000 09:08

(6) No, the ice caps are not melting any faster than they are now.

November 06, 2000, 17:26

(7) I suppose we could agree that no particular era in history is famous for its development of humanity but just once I would like to hear questions like, "What is family life like in the future? How does society deal with poverty? Is AIDS, abortion and drug use still a problem?"

November 06, 2000 22:13

(8) The mass and gravitational field of a microsingularity can then be manipulated by "injecting" electrons onto its surface.



(9) By rotating two electric microsigularities at high speed, it is possible to create and modify a local gravity sinusoid that replicates the affects of a Kerr black hole.

(10) The computer system is connected to the unit through an electrical bus. There are actually three computers linked together that take the same signals from the gravity sensors and clocks. They use a Borda error correcting protocol that checks the integrity of the data and trips the VGL system.



November 07, 2000 17:18

(11) The C206 uses 6 cesium clocks but they use an optical system to check the oscillation frequency. This makes the worldline divergence confidence much higher.

November 07, 2000 21:23

(12) People raise a great deal of their own food and do more "farm" work. Yes, compared to now, we do work long hours. After the war, my father made a living selling oranges up and down the West coast of Florida. My closest friend raises horses and another works for a company that maintains "wireless" Internet nodes.





(13) Yes, there is a post office.

(14) The Internet is still alive and well in the future. People spend more time talking because life is more centered on the community.

(15) When I'm with my parents, I live in a community made up of "tree houses" on a large river in Florida. The river floods sometimes and we have access to the Gulf. Most of our neighbors make a living off the sea or in moving cargo by boat.

(16) There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States (which is the "other side" of the civil war from my perspective), China and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...thus we (in the country) won. The European Union and China were also destroyed. Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska.

(17) Yes, genetic engineering is used but it's like any other technology. It can be good and bad. One thing we did not do was create more hybrid seeds. What are people thinking?



What future technologies can we look forward to?

(18) Hydrogen fuel cells and more efficient solar cells are big deals. Computer technology and software get MUCH better.

(19) After the war, early new communities gathered around the current Universities. That's where the libraries were. I went to school at Fort UF, which is now called the University of Florida. Not too much is different except the military is large part of people's life and we spend a great deal of time in the fields and farms at the "University" or Fort.

(20) Yes, we have cameras. More digital. Film is used like painting is today. No hologram camera though.

(21) Yes we have phones but the service is through the web. Most power generation is localized.

(22) Yes, solar is big. There is thought that a singularity generator could also be used but most people are against it.



(23) Hats are more common in the future and flashy colors are less common. Dress is much more functional and we "dress up" whenever we get a chance.

(24) Women like to wear their hair longer and men have it much shorter. Both sexes shave it all off when they're in active military service.

(25) Far less medical treatment in the future even though It's more advanced. People die when they now its time to die. No lasers. Genetic medicine and cloning organs are the obvious new techs in the future.

November 11, 2000 18:46

What type of system is used to maintain the singularity?

(26) I'm not a physicist so I cannot answer that to your level of sophistication. The singularities are held in an enclosed magnetic field.

November 15, 2000 14:12

If you're telling the truth, the last thing you should be doing is talking about the war and the government.

(27) Have you considered that your society might be better off if half of you were dead?

November 15, 2000 14:20

Tell me anything like that and I will believe you forever.

(28) It is a mistake to give anyone your unwavering belief...but you will find that out yourself in 2005.

November 15, 2000 14:41

Why did you go to 1975?

(29) We need they system to "debug" various legacy computer programs in 2036. UNIX has a problem in 2038.

November 17, 2000 09:34

(30) It is thought that being close to a gravitational field has a biological effect on all matter including cells. The effect is to slow the movement of electrons in the orbits of their nucleus, which slows the mechanical and biological functions of the observer close to the gravity. Thus the passing of time is a local phenomenon depending on how close you are to a gravitational source.

This is one example of a theory involving "time shells" progressing in size and intensity around a gravitational point from all matter. The more massive the object, the larger and more influential the time shells around it (like an onion). Another offshoot of this theory is that kinetic energy is actually the conversion of stored energy in the atom as it passes through time shells in a gravitational field.

November 20, 2000 17:16

If telling us about your time machine won't change anything, what would happen if someone built one based on your information?

(31) What you do on your worldline is your own business. I can't think of any better way to start a war than for someone to figure out how to make a time machine. Go for it.

November 21, 2000 10:41

(32) For a change, I have a question for all of you. I want you to think very hard. What major disaster was expected and prepared for in the last year and a half that never happened?

(It is generally agreed that John is referring to the Y2K bug.)

(33) We live in a world recovering from years of war, poison, destruction and hate. All of it, courtesy of the thinking and actions of people that live right now in the same world you do, worrying about which stocks to buy or whether or not a stranger is lying to them on the Internet.

(34) I know exactly where I was and every detail of the exact moment the first nuclear warheads began falling on Jacksonville.



(35) While you sit by and watch your Constitution being torn away from you, you willfully eat poisoned food, buy manufactured products no one needs and turn an uncaring eye away from millions of people suffering and dying all around you. Is this the "Universal Law" you subscribe to?

(36) Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.

November 25, 2000 13:59

(37) On my worldline, it is known that the 5100 series is capable of reading all the IBM code written before the widespread use of APL and Basic. Unfortunately, there are none left that anyone can find on my worldline.

November 25, 2000 14:03

(38) My worldline is not unified under a single government but I would say it is closer to a unified purpose. Isn't that what you want anyway?

(39) I have tried to tell people about CJD disease and it seems to be "catching on" in Europe.





Can you tell us the foods that are unsafe now? Is there anything we can do to prepare for the war you are describing?

(40) I tried to consolidate your questions into a basic list. I hope this helps.

1. Do not eat or use products from any animal that is fed and eats parts of its own dead.

2. Do not kiss or have intimate relations with anyone you do not know.

3. Learn basic sanitation and water purification.

4. Be comfortable around firearms. Learn to shoot and clean a gun.

5. Get a good first aid kit and learn to use it.

6. Find 5 people within 100 miles that you trust with your life and stay in contact with them.

7. Get a copy of the US Constitution and read it.

8. Eat less.

9. Get a bicycle and two sets of spare tires. Ride it 10 miles a week.

10. Consider what you would bring with you if you had to leave your home in 10 min. and never return.

What event started the war? Can it be stopped?

(41) The war is a result of faulty politics and desperation from Western leadership during the US civil war. Yes, I suppose you could stop it.

Are some areas of the United States safer than others?

(42) Take a close look at the county-by-county voting map from the last elections.



Were biological or chemical weapons used in the war? Were any weapons used that effected people's minds?

(43) Yes there were biological and chemical weapons used. No mind control weapons but there are new "non-lethal" weapon systems that turn out to be quite lethal.

Has cancer or AIDS been cured yet?

(44) Aids, no. Cancer, some progress.



What is the one thing you would want us to remember?

(45) Please, please wake up. Look at the signposts around you now.

[Silverity]

I am skeptical of course.

Especially with the idea that we can have a world war that kills half the world's population and still have a infrastructure in place which can go onto develop time travel within twenty years.

I'll bear the USA civil war prediction in mind though.

Silverity.

[JoeB]

Hmmmm, a time travel machine must also be a space travel machine. Time and space are intertwined. Where the earth is located in space on January 1, 2004 is not the same as January 1, 1904. Image a spring that is pulled and stretched out, this is earth's orbit through the years. The sun travels around the galactic core while the earth orbits the sun through it's 250,000 year journey around the Milky way's center. For him to travel thirty years into the past, he must also travel X distance to where the earth was thirty years from his time. Did he ever address this? Nuclear weapons are dangerous and reckless weapons to have around, no doubt. But I can't think of anything more dangerous and reckless than to create a singularity (even a small one trapped in a magnetic field) anywhere on earth.

[hoarder]

Although I'm extremely skeptical about time travel, a civil war prediction in the US could be based entirely on analytical, logical reasoning. I see the writing on the wall quite plainly. Race will be the main cause of it. This explains why TPTB have opened our borders and sent our money and technology overseas.
In actual armed confrontations the enemy will not be seen. It will be gentile against gentile, and niether will win. Centralized food distribution will "break down" in regions TPTB feel most threatened by. They will engineer it so the remaining population is one who has no identity, no potential for resistance and is the most easily subjugated. The foundation for this war has been long in construction. It may also be fought without much violence, but lost by assimilation. The assimilated population will meet the above criteria and could easily be thinned out as needed by starvation, as in the USSR.

[bigjon]

Very Interesting and entertaining, but I "KNOW" it's not true because everyone knows that the Mayan Calender ends in 2012 and we're gobbled up by planet X.

[FoundingFathers]

JoeB -

He does sort of address this question in this series of posts...


My Motive:


I've been in your time a bit longer than I had expected. My next opportunity to go home comes in the spring. For most of my adult life, I have read about, wondered and debated about this time. I value this opportunity to share experiences. If you absolutely believed I was a time traveler, with no skepticism whatsoever, then we would be unable to communicate. The focus of our attention would then always be on the machine. The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different.


I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won't gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions. Please do not assume I am purposely avoiding questions. I am human, I get tired, and I forget things. Please, just remind me if I missed a question and I will get to it.


I do have one tip though. If you want me to go over your post in detail put, "Hey John, you're a big Jerk." at the end of the insightful and logical part, not the beginning. In fact, maybe you could just abbreviate it and put a number rating from 1-100 next to it so I know how strong you feel. Something like, HJYABJ (78). It would save space.


The Physics of Time Travel:


ACCELERATION = TIME DIALATION


As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the "twins paradox". As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of "time travel" should have been proven already on this worldline with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You will not meet yourself.


GRAVITY = ACCELERATION


As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.


LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE


The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine. Static black holes provide this type of power. As one twin approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin's watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another worldline and it's one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.


ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY


Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a donut. These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black hole's gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity.


DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLDLINE


Another other more interesting result of passing through a donut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or worldline. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler.


So now the problem becomes where do we find a donut-shaped singularity?


A PONDERING HAWKING = MICROSINGULARITY


Steven Hawking proposed the existence of microsingularities that were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)


HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS = ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY


When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner. Soon, CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and potentially dangerous items produced from this increase in energy will be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron. (


ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD


Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 - 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.


LOCALIZED KERR FIELD = TIPLER SINUSOID


By using two microsingularities in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped singularity and into an alternate worldline. Thus, safe time travel.


I will continue with the individual posts next. Thank you for your patience.


02-15-2001 12:07 PM


The following are personal rules I try to keep (unless of course they conflict with my secret agenda). I look forward to discussing any discrepancies you may find.


PERSONAL RULES FOR TEMPORAL DISCLOSURE:


(1). I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge.


(2). I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.


(3). I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well being.


Thank you for your persistence and patience. It would appear some of my more sarcastic comments are directed at you. They are not and I apologize.


Your future is not unchangeable? Harm may come to a person if I define them as someone who will do something in the future? However, in this case, I just don't know. I am not familiar with pop culture in 2001.


Are you avoiding inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is sound and you're avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures.


I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won't be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldline.


What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important?


I'm not sure if you wanted to discuss these or not. If yes, I will be happy to do that.


Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a radiation counter every few miles?


Yes I do. However there is a fear about being here that I can only define as uncertainty. When I walk around in 2001, the air smells clean but I wonder if it really is. In 2036, there is no gray. The air is either clean or it will kill you. That feeling is very overwhelming when I eat here.


Are there people in this time period who accept you as one?


I have a very few precious relationships with people online who accept me as real or crazy and don't ask any questions. Much of my email flows through them. My parents are the only ones that have access to everything I could use to prove who I am.


How are you financing things?


I have taken very clever and reliable measures to go undetected. Yes, there are probably people like that but I am not in active conversation with them. My expenses are not that large. I spend a great deal of time now archiving.


I spotted few typing errors in John's comments so I will assume that he has had an average education.


You must be energized and anxious to improve your education system then. Please tell me what you plan to do.


Name any near future event that makes history.


You mean other than the mad cow pandemic, the breakthroughs in high-energy physics and the unknown functions of the 5100? I realize I've only been on this board for a few weeks but I assume you've read the other postings I've made about these issues months ago in order to be so definitive.


If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here now. You would both have the same fingerprints and DNA. If you want to prove your case then meet with your younger self and get some evidence.


I am with my younger self. I don't have a case to prove and I wonder how many needles I would be on the receiving end for that one. With your superior education, I assume you already figured out that pretty soon someone might try that with a clone. Be careful what you take for definitive proof.


How long will you be here? When are you going back?


My first opportunity to go home is this spring.


What are you taking back with you?


A lot of hard drives filled with books, archived web sites, pictures and audio files. I'm also taking back family items that were lost in the war.


Is propane still around in the future?


Yes but not very much of it comes from natural gas. Hydrogen is converted into propane because it's easier to handle.


I would hope the location I live in would be spared (the Hawaiian Islands).


My parents went to Hawaii on their Honeymoon. My dad told me a quick story about going to a fast food store and paying 6 or 7 dollars for a hamburger. I got an image in my head of a huge tanker filled with frozen hamburgers headed into the Pacific. Hawaii is very dependant on the mainland for food, isn't it?


Thank you for your kind words.


Logically he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.


Mediums like the Internet offer unique opportunities for communication. When I return, I will be debriefed on my opinions about how people in 2001 will accept time travelers.


Why would he reveal himself if he has no stated agenda for doing so?


I'm not sure I exactly said that.


Did John come here to give somebody a push to invent the Time Machine?


I find this one the most interesting. What do you think would happen if the United States, China or Russia suddenly developed a time machine and the rest of the world found out about it?


John makes a verbal maneuver that turns a question back on the one who asked it so they think he actually answered the question; which he just avoided answering. He does this all the time and I wanted to point that out before it happens again.


I am forced to admit I must rethink what I know about Mobius loops.


Does the last name (forum personal name) have any historical relevance?


You may leave a message to yourself if you wish.


What happens with Australia?


I believed I wrote about Australia a bit earlier.


What colloquial language is used in the future?


Many people use the Internet for communication and entertainment. I would say that affects our speech. We type very fast.


What exactly happens to the water?


Yes, radiation affected the water but that can always be distilled out. There are biological hazards that cannot. In addition, fresh water is hard to come by without talking to someone with a gun first.


Have you met your parents here? What do they think of you?


Yes. I am with them now. I would say it's a combination of fear and relief.


Does time have ends?


Yes. It is believed that all worldlines end. It is also thought that parallel worldlines that appear to be the same end at different times.


John, if you were really a time traveler, you'd be dead. The Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth will be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space.


This is an excellent point and one I thought I went over a bit earlier. There is a gravity lock system that compensates for the local gravity outside of the Tipler sinusoid. This is the reason the unit is only accurate to about 60 years.


You are inconsistent about not knowing anything about physics but you're willing to discuss the operation of your machine. Which is it?


I suppose I am thinking about the physics and the engineering as separate subjects. I apologize for the confusion and I will be happy to answer your questions more directly.


http://www.johntitor.com/

[Grizzled One]

Someone using the assumed name of John Titor and claiming to be a soldier on a mission from 2036 presented a considerable amount of information on the Web beginning around November 2000 about his mission and time travel machine, his perspective on our society, how our society is going wrong, and how society as we know it will end in a very short but massive intercontinental nuclear war in 2015. He's gone now, back to 2036 he said he was going in his last posting on March 24, 2001, and the threads he left across the Web are slowly evaporating.

But:

November 15, 2000 14:41

Why did you go to 1975?

(29) We need they system to "debug" various legacy computer programs in 2036. UNIX has a problem in 2038.

How does he know that UNIX has a problem in 2038? That is two years in his future.

[FoundingFathers]

Grizzled One - I may be wrong but I think "we" know that UNIX is going to have a problem in 2038 - kinda like a Y2K thing.


Any techie confirm this?

[Grizzled One]

Originally Posted by FoundingFathers

Grizzled One - I may be wrong but I think "we" know that UNIX is going to have a problem in 2038 - kinda like a Y2K thing.


Any techie confirm this?

FF,

He just sounded so sure, like it really happened. Y2K shows that speculation is not always correct. Maybe I will send an email to TechTV, they seem to have the latest scoop. Any techie's imput would be greatly appreciated.

[FoundingFathers]

Grizzled One

Assuming the website is correct on the dates of the posts, a few things or prediction are intriging.

In Novemeber 2000 he asks what is everybody worried about and prepared for that will amount to nothing (Y2k?)

Several times in early 2001 he mentions and refers to MadCow disease and how it will spread to the US

also in early 2001 he discusses a potential Space Shuttle disaster - referring to us not being able to perfect the heat shield and a "problem" with the landing into Florida.

I guess time will tell. Interesting.

[JoeB]

Well this explanation does really tell one much, except he covered his bases when it comes to the problem that with time travel you also have space travel:

This is an excellent point and one I thought I went over a bit earlier. There is a gravity lock system that compensates for the local gravity outside of the Tipler sinusoid. This is the reason the unit is only accurate to about 60 years.

Tipler sinusoid, like we are suppose to know what a Tipler sinusoid is? While he is quite clear as to what it does (compensate for the space/time differential) he is not quite clear as to how it works. He knows enough to explain things in their fundamentals, but "I not a physicist" is supposed to good enough to cover the devilish details. He should also know that to observe is to effect change. But he goes one step further and interacts, which raises further the chance of change, change he does not control nor can foretell. As far as we know his interaction might be a catalyst for the events he foretells. And why sixty years? What is happening with the device that space/time travel is limited to sixty years? Doing a search he states that one hour travel equals ten years in time. Anyone know how fast the sun is traveling? If so, find that distance in one year and times it by ten. Then see how fast the device is traveling in one hour. If it's faster than C, then I'm sure the answer would be that spinning singularities and the anomaly they create, make faster than light travel possible.


Good news is, no super volcano eruption in Yellowstone Park for at least the next thirty years.

[entropyrising]

And it's all available on Ebay!

LOL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=29351

[JoeB]

In November 2000 he asks what is everybody worried about and prepared for that will amount to nothing (Y2k?)

Harry Browne was saying the same thing pre-Y2K.

Several times in early 2001 he mentions and refers to MadCow disease and how it will spread to the US

Given the spread of diseases through the world due to easy global travel, it would have been highly probable that the US would eventually experience Mad Cow. In all likelihood it was already here waiting to rear it's ugly head.

also in early 2001 he discusses a potential Space Shuttle disaster - referring to us not being able to perfect the heat shield and a "problem" with the landing into Florida.

Any space enthusiast would have told you the tiles were a disaster waiting to happen before the Columbia event. If this guy was pulling a hoax, it's obvious he is well versed in the fundamentals of theoretical physics. If that's the case then he was probably a space enthusiast.

Did he forecast 9/11? If not, why?

[FoundingFathers]

[
Good news is, no super volcano eruption in Yellowstone Park for at least the next thirty years.[/QUOTE]

JoeB,

Yeah, and I guess I should buy some shares of GE. If I'm still around in 2038 I'd want shares of the company that invents a time machine.

[JoeB]

Best Practices for Time Travelers

Good analysis of Titor's story.

[HistoryStudent]

Wow, it reminds me of:

http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/...&division=div1

mixed with:

http://wyllie.lib.virginia.edu:8086/...&division=div1

Which will happen.

Chow.

[IrishGold]

I think I will add an "Amen" right here!

[AgAuGal]

Originally Posted by Grizzled One

But:


How does he know that UNIX has a problem in 2038? That is two years in his future.

Just like we knew in advance there would be a problem in Y2K. Even Greenspam knew since he was part of the problem. Trying to save a few bucks and only code a two digit year. I supect it is not a major issue that this guy could know about a future program limitation with UNIX code.

[Halophyte]

Time flys like an arrow - Fruit flies like a banana.

- Groucho Marx

.

(it's more funny if you say then read it ...)

.

[AgAuGal]

Originally Posted by fvk

The unix epoch starts at 1 jan 1970. Time is counted as seconds since that date. The number of seconds is stored as a 32 bit value in 32 bit machines running 32 bit operating systems. 19 jan 2038 is when 2^31 non negative seconds will occur. The simple solution is to use a 64 bit value on a 64 bit machine running a 64 bit version of unix. That should last you for 22 times the estimated time of our universe. We have 64 bit machines running 64 bit linux using 64 bit values for time since the early 90's. Don't see why this would become a problem for these people who can figure out how to make a freaking time machine.

Maybe none of the 64 bit machines survived this guys predicted conflagration. ITs amazing what 64 bit addressing can provide, I am a bit suspect regarding his UNIX 'problem'.

[JoeB]

I went and did more reading about this guy and the messages he posted. Read most everything. I've also tracked down some of the otriginal forums he posted on, one is : http://www.anomalies.net. They still have discussion about him and apparently on of the moderators there was one of the few he sent personal e-mails to. ANyway there is a thread where one of the furom member convinced a physicts to read over the physics John used to explain how his time traveling machine worked. You should read his reply, he pretty much takes apart John's explainations and even agree with the commnets I made above how irresponcible it would be to have black holes on the esrth, even if you could make the super-small ones that John's machine apparently used. Here's the thread for those interested:

http://www.anomalies.net/cgi-bin/bbs...c;f=9;t=000482

For those not wanting to read it all I give you the ending of his extensive analysis:

WHO COULD POSSIBLY TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY?
>
> Screw the physics -- although I personally am by no means convinced
> that physics even >>permits<< the kind of singularity free time travel
> they (for this was surely a consortium of jokers) propose. The
> ENGINEERING is ludicrous. The COMPUTATION is ludicrous (where are the
> goddam computers in the suitcase? Where is the programming and
> control interface? Are we supposed to believe that this box has one
> knob and a switch as a control interface? Where are all the wires?).
> And as I explained in a reply to somebody else, the entire multiverse
> story totally ignores the problems of chaos, conservation laws,
> thermodynamic balance and oh, so much more -- the mere EXISTENCE of a
> multiverse has consequences in terms of detailed balance and entropy
> flow in the universe we occupy, and time travel creates a HUGE phase
> space for global entropy to increase in. You'd never get home again,
> not without a theory that permitted you to very precisely steer. You'd
> never get close. Period.
>
> I personally have never liked time travel stories (although I've read
> plenty of them) because they are so difficult to disentangle on the
> basis of chaos alone (as explored in at least one memorable story,
> where a single butterfly was killed in a visit to the Jurassic or the
> like, and upon return the entire Universe was totally different -- as
> it would be if a single ATOM were displaced a single ATOMIC RADIUS,
> let alone a butterfly). I do somewhat enjoy multiverse stories, and
> have even written (but not yet published) one.
>
> In my opinion, this isn't even a good multiverse story. Somebody is
> going to come forth one day and publish a whole book on how they made
> fun of the entire Internet with a bad story, a sad reflection on the
> gullability of our culture.
>
> And before you ask, yes, y'all can feel free to republish any or all
> of my replies on your lists, as long as you don't ask me to join them
> and keep my time-wasting interface to a minimum of a couple or three
> people. The sooner this matter is really put to rest, the sooner we
> can all return to leading useful and productive lives DOING SOMETHING
> ELSE:-)
>
> Pardon me while I blow my nose and dry my eyes. There. I feel much
> better now.
>
> Now let's leave it alone, shall we?


There's another reply on page two of the thread, again here's a sample from the end of the reply:

Finally, there is the issue of thermodynamics and entropy and holes in phase space. One of the first consequences of the existence of a multiverse is that two kinds of laws that physicists tend to hold very
dear are immediately and fundamentally violated in any ONE universe, unless you add all sorts of nasty codicils to the theory. The first is energy conservation. Titor came from the future. Some mass-energy presumably disappeared there. He appeared here. Forget looping until an "infinite mass is formed" -- just looping ONCE breaks the shyte out of energy conservation, per Universe.

It is possible, however, to overcome this. One could insist that all intrauniversal transfers be balanced (within some measure of quantum indeterminancy). If I carry a thousand kilograms of mass from A to B, a
thousand kilograms of SOMETHING have to go back from B to A -- something that balances not just mass but charge, baryon number, lepton number, spin, momentum, a whole bunch of other quantities that we physicists quaintly think of as being conserved.

That still leaves the problem of ENTROPY. INFORMATION flows from one universe to another. Heat flows from one universe to another. If you take something ice cold from Universe A to Universe B in exchange for something hot, you can actually make the net entropy of B smaller. Or you can scramble things up in A and B, increasing the entropy of both. This too has been explored in multiverse theories in stories, e.g. by Asimov.

If this weren't enough, I'd take a crack at the notion that his "VGL" can stabilize motion over time so that he remains near the earth's surface but doesn't come out inside (for example) a wall, or with something as light and ephemeral as a spiderweb that happens to transfix
his heart or brain as he (re)materializes at his destination. Any test that would exclude such a possibility would also exclude his ever coming out into a new time at all. I'd also love to see the gravitometer that can measure the change in G over ten meters near the earth's surface, that can deal with Coriolis forces, mass distribution changes, the wind, lightning and storms, coming out over water, coming out in a vacuum, coming out inside of a mountain as a very interesting fossil. Oh, don't worry (wave wave) it all has solutions (wave wave) perfectly safe (wave wave). Handwaving isn't an answer, really.

All he ever did, is make references. Much safer than slinging formulas. Formulas can be proven wrong or directly addressed.

I like my fiction to be fiction, generally speaking, although I also
enjoyed "War of the Worlds"...

rgb

[Ander]

I hadnt heard of this, thats pretty funny.

[RossL]

Whoever John Titor was could write convincing science fiction. He must have been very well versed in physics. But he didn't know a damn thing about money. He claimed that they still used dollar bills in 2020's and 2030's after a civil war that Washington LOST.

Sorry to inform you guys but this is bull$&!+ If a government loses a war, it's notes are worthless! Why would they still be using federal reserve notes? John Titor didn't think that one through.

It's all fiction.

[Infidel]

What type of money do you use in 2036?

(56) Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have money and credit cards. However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized.

(57) Banking is based mostly around the community structure. There are no multinational banking or computerized economic systems. There are also no income taxes.

[Pandagold Banned]

I did not read this in detail, but I do not get the bit about him not predicting. There appears quite a number of 'predictions'.

In fact, it could well be the work of a 'far-seer' (Wells and Verne) who has used this style (approach) to get attention, and interest, to communcate his thoughts.

Some of his views could easily come to pass. Serious internal unrest could happen in the US if the problems in the ME begin to suck in too much money and resources, together with wide conscription, especially accompanied by deaths. And/or there was a serious financial melt down with a drastic cut in living standards. (and these are just a few things that could ignite the touch paper).

I never knock people with creative imagination, it is a facet that is in short supply. Everything we have created has come from, first, someones imagination.

[Ander]

Originally Posted by Pandagold

Some of his views could easily come to pass. Serious internal unrest could happen in the US if the problems in the ME begin to suck in too much money and resources, together with wide conscription, especially accompanied by deaths. And/or there was a serious financial melt down with a drastic cut in living standards. (and these are just a few things that could ignite the touch paper).

I agree that some or many of his predictions will probably occur. But the story is still BS. :D

Good story though. ;)

[shades2]

Originally Posted by Grizzled One

FF,

He just sounded so sure, like it really happened. Y2K shows that speculation is not always correct. Maybe I will send an email to TechTV, they seem to have the latest scoop. Any techie's imput would be greatly appreciated.

This is a really old post, but I thought I would respond.

Obviously our hoaxer is a bit of a Unix buff. However it's all BS, as Unix has been going 64bit for quite some time and one of the changes to be made is to store the date in a 64bit number which would be a very long way in the future indeed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_epoch

In computing, the 'Unix epoch' is the representation of points in time as the number of non-leap seconds since 00:00:00 UTC on January 1, 1970, introduced by the Unix operating system, standardised in POSIX, and later adopted by the Java programming language and JavaScript. Because many computers today store the number of seconds as a 32-bit signed integer, the Unix epoch is often said to last 231 seconds, thus "ending" at 03:14:07 Tuesday, January 19, 2038 (UTC).

[shades2]

Originally Posted by shades2

This is a really old post, but I thought I would respond.

Obviously our hoaxer is a bit of a Unix buff. However it's all BS, as Unix has been going 64bit for quite some time and one of the changes to be made is to store the date in a 64bit number which would be a very long way in the future indeed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_epoch

In computing, the 'Unix epoch' is the representation of points in time as the number of non-leap seconds since 00:00:00 UTC on January 1, 1970, introduced by the Unix operating system, standardised in POSIX, and later adopted by the Java programming language and JavaScript. Because many computers today store the number of seconds as a 32-bit signed integer, the Unix epoch is often said to last 231 seconds, thus "ending" at 03:14:07 Tuesday, January 19, 2038 (UTC).

The above should of course read 2^31, or 2 to the power of 31 seconds.

[RossL]

Originally Posted by zhukher

What type of money do you use in 2036?

(56) Its not very different than it is now. Yes, we have money and credit cards. However, like everything else, the monetary system is decentralized.

(57) Banking is based mostly around the community structure. There are no multinational banking or computerized economic systems. There are also no income taxes.

If you read through some of the John Titor web pages, you will find a conversation where someone asked him to describe the money in detail. You will find that he didn't do his homework. Just like 99% of the present US population, they don't understand what a dollar bill is.